Slash wank

[brak666]

So, there's slash wank again. I love how everything is cyclical in fandom. The latest fervor over warnings has just died down, so now people are arguing about slash. I mean seriously, have there been any new arguments in fandom since the end of the 70's? I've been in fandom going on ten years now and it seems we all keep coming around to the same basic disagreements. But that's not what this post is supposed to be about.

It's about slash wank, and why I feel I can't participate. See, I have a fairly unique perspective when it comes to slash. I'm a gay man. I'm not the only gay man in slash fandom and I don't claim to speak for them all. But in my travels in the internet I've encountered maybe five who I would consider to be active in a community of women that likely numbers in the thousands (though I'd say it's likely there are quite a few gay men lurking in all corners of slash fandom). So when the slash argument rears it's head semi-annually, and everyone trots out their reasons for and against, it all just leaves me a bit cold. Because the most common pro-slash comment given is that it's a femminist exercise (which leaves me out completely). For me, slash is a response to the invisibility of gay people in popular media. Sure, things have gotten better over the last ten years or so, but I'm still pretty much guaranteed to not find any representations of gayness on any TV show, book, or movie I happen to come across that's not explicitly appealing to me as a gay person. So, the appeal of slash for me is that it takes a source text that completely ignores the fact of my existence and makes it all about me. That's incredibly empowering. Unfortunately it's also completely irrelavant to the standard pro-slash/anti-slash discussion. So I sit here in frustration wanting to comment all over the place, but not doing it. And also marveling about how so many people just don't "get it" before remembering that even most slashers don't approach it from the same angle I do.

Though I do have one relavant comment for all the anti-slashers out there who keep crying OOC!:

*clears throat*

99% of all fanfic is OOC. Get over it, and stop pissing in my cereal.

Comments

[anothersuperboy.livejournal.com]

Amen, dude. Amen. And... it's probably because I am a gay man, but how the fuck is writing about two guys having sex a femminist exercise?

[brak666.livejournal.com]

Something about subverting the text and women writing for other women. I never really understood it, but I accept it as a valid reason and enjoy the results. I'm sure a woman could explain it better than I can.

[carolinecrane.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the feminist argument also relies on the concept of women embracing their sexual desires and not repressing them. They're free to celebrate porn for porn's sake or whatever and that makes them empowered. As a woman I *get* the feminist argument and I'm sure it's valid for a lot of slashers, but as a bisexual female I'm in the same camp as you.

I write both slash and femmeslash (if one is going to differentiate, which one always does in these arguments, since for most straight slashers femmeslash=gross, but that's another wank entirely) because there are very few satisfying depictions of gay or bi characters in mainstream media and subverting the text to include them *is* empowering. The reason I write more slash than femmeslash is because there are so few strong, likeable female characters to work with, and often only one per text, so there's often a lot of backbending crossover-writing involved to get two of them together.

[gblvr.livejournal.com]

What she said....

[capra-maritimus.livejournal.com]

I'm a woman and I don't get how it's a feminist exercise.

Maybe it's only a feminist exercise for women? In the, oh, I don't know, embracing any kind of sexuality or sexual activity that goes beyond 'het sex in the missionary position and just lie back and think of England, hey it's all about what the guy wants' way?

Most slash writers I know write it because it's fun. Period. :D

[elrond50.livejournal.com]

99% of all fanfic is OOC. Get over it, and stop pissing in my cereal.

I agree totally. I also avoid this kind of wank. I have gay male slashers on my FL, but you are right, there are very few of us.

[minotaurs.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, Wordy McYes. I pretty much completely ignore all wank, but the anti/pro-slash arguments in particular leave me out in the cold.

[amazonatheart.livejournal.com]

i hate it when people piss in my cereal...

[brak666.livejournal.com]

icon love

[slashmommy.livejournal.com]

See, I stay out of it because I tend to get blank looks to my take on slash. I had a teacher who was explaining about courtly love and the creation of "romance" that just clicked for me why I like slash. He basically said that the more impossible the situation is, the more "romantic" it is and let's face it slash loves to put the couples with the most difficulties to overcome together.

[intheyear2004.livejournal.com]

Fly-by from MF - thanks for that explanation! That nails it for me!

[j-crew-guy.livejournal.com]

Complete and total agreement with what you said.

[themongkey.livejournal.com]

There are probably almost as many reasons for writing slash as there are slashers. For one person it's a feminist excercise, for another it's empowerment, etc.

Um... I like beans!

[themongkey.livejournal.com]

'excercise'?

Oops.

[i-amthecosmos.livejournal.com]

See, I like slash partially for the reason you described, it makes media more explicitly gay. There's other reasons, my longstanding taste for musician RPS is just a continuation of my music obession, for instance. But I think that your reason is better than the "feminist exercise" one.

Although I do love being in a group of mostly women, I admit. Most of my friends in RL tend to be boys, so it's a nice change.

[ladyjax.livejournal.com]

Because the most common pro-slash comment given is that it's a femminist exercise (which leaves me out completely).

Yeah, which doesn't explain why it's so hard for a genre that is heavily dominated by women to even explore sexuality through a female gaze rather than an explicitly male one.

Most of the arguments leave me cold as well, even as a self-identified feminist because I'm usually standing in a corner going, "What of this is feminist if you completely leave women out of the picture?"

It would be a lot more honest for some people to stand up and say that they write slash because it gets them off, pure and simple.

Sure, things have gotten better over the last ten years or so, but I'm still pretty much guaranteed to not find any representations of gayness on any TV show, book, or movie I happen to come across that's not explicitly appealing to me as a gay person.

Thank you so much for saying this.

So, the appeal of slash for me is that it takes a source text that completely ignores the fact of my existence and makes it all about me.

I can get behind that.

[starwatcher]

.
doesn't explain why it's so hard for a genre that is heavily dominated by women to even explore sexuality through a female gaze rather than an explicitly male one.

For me (as a reader, not writer), it's what carolinecrane said -- "there are so few strong, likeable female characters to work with"

Also, when an author brings the female gaze (as an original character?) into a dynamic that is specifically about two males -- Fraser and Ray, Bodie and Doyle, Starskey and Hutch, or whoever -- the author will, of necessity, interfere with that dynamic. Most fans will resist that strenuously, even if the story is gen instead of slash.

And, as a female, I know about m/f interaction -- been there, done that -- and f/f doesn't float my boat. But there's a world of differences to explore with m/m, however idealized the female authors make it.
.

[jcalanthe]

Oh yes.

I'm a bisexual female...

[nyghtshayde.livejournal.com]

...and I don't view my writing or reading slash as a "feminist exercise." I write slash and read it because I think the notion of two guys fuckin' is hot! Hot hot hot! For years, I've listened to most of my male friends talk about how two women together is hot, and while I can agree with them in some respects, it's become extremely cliché. There is not enough male-male romance/sex/erotica in the world and I, for one, am proud to support it and contribute to it. Femslash, for me, is predominantly commonplace because it's widely more acceptable because straight men are turned on by it. However, when it comes to the male-male stuff, straight men run for the hills and their happy places where rubbing penii together doesn't exist. While I squeal and cheer and clap and beg for more.

I don't see how this is "feminist." I just don't see it.

[tx-cronopio.livejournal.com]

I'm too tired to leave a coherent comment beyond this.... Yay! go you.

Here via metafandom

[veleda-k.livejournal.com]

I think that there can be multiple reasons for liking slash. People are different, why can't their reasons be different? Some readers and writers see it as a feminist exercise, others see it as "Oh my god, sexy!" then others, like yourself, like it because including gay people in media is empowering.

I would fully support you in jumping into a typical argument and saying "Well, here's why I like slash." A fresh perspective is a good thing, and helps people consider what they might not have thought of before.

99% of all fanfic is OOC. Get over it, and stop pissing in my cereal.

I've already exhausted myself arguing against "slash is one way ticket to OOC," so all I want to say is "word."

Word.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

A lot depends on who you choose to slash--I save a lot of time and trouble by picking media properties with characters who lots of people have *no* trouble in perceiving as gay.

[dartmouthtongue.livejournal.com]

I explained this to quite a few pro-slash, anti-slash people the other day. I spoke about how most literature and TV portrayals of gay men they show us as either the joke, the girl's best friend, or the tragic figure, besieged by disease, predatory men or homophobic cave dwellers with a penchant for baseball bats (how Freudian). It's either Will & Grace or Brokeback Mountain, or Will & Grace in Brokeback Moutain.

On the other hand, Slash makes us the heroes, the caped crusaders, the dude who gets the most.

However, I do think it CAN be a feminist exercise. I've asked women about what it is that draws them to write slash, and these have been the reasons:

1. Slash: The Erogenous Zone

Some women consider m/m sex arousing. This can't be the only reason, though, that women write slash since many of them are lesbians or asexual.

2. Slash: Vicarious-ity

Through portrayals of male characters, women can carry out their own fantasies of prowess and dominance, both in the bedroom and outside it.

3. Slash: Equals

They don't have to deal with power imbalance, the problem of showing a woman who is both strong, assertive, a match for her man, all without the taint of "bitch."

4. Slash: Homosexuality as a source of Feminine Empowerment

The very fact that homosexuality exists, questions traditional notions of sexuality, sexual orientation and gender. Through 'Teh gay Boys,' feminist writers can examine what it means to be a man, a woman, etc.


As many people have said here, there are many reasons to like slash (or even hate it). Whatever the reasons are, the important thing is that they write the stuff. While everybody's shouting, you can point out how as a gay boy you didn't see any male superheros who had boyfriends, and now, through the power of slash, a 12 year old gay boy can read about Batman and Robin snogging in a very PG way. For the children... xD

[svartalfur.livejournal.com]

For me, slash is a response to the invisibility of gay people in popular media. ... So, the appeal of slash for me is that it takes a source text that completely ignores the fact of my existence and makes it all about me. That's incredibly empowering.

I concur 100%! Thank you so much for stating that!